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Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back
Kevin Smith
June 29, 2001

WARNING!
...MAJOR spoilers ahead...

MD = Michael Dequina; Q = Other press; KS = Kevin Smith



[Kevin enters singing "The Imperial March" from The Empire Strikes Back]

Q: Did you guys go to [Jason] Lee's thing last night?

KS: We did. We went to the InStyle bash, which was a lot bigger than I thought it was. Lee said, "Come, we're doing a show for my friend Bryten Goss," and I was like, awesome, a little art show. And you get there, and there's a red carpet and fuckin' 400 photographers, and EW--not EW, E! and Access [Hollywood], and I was not prepared. It's not like I would've changed my clothes or anything, but at least I would've known going in that we were facing down that.

Q: So how did you convince Miramax to let you do this parody of them when they were so sensitive about other subjects?

KS: I said, "Remember that movie of ours that you dropped last year?"

[Everyone laughs]

KS: "This is payback, and payback's a bitch!" They were actually for it. When I handed in the script, Bob [Weinstein] loved it because Bob was like, "Well, all the jokes are about Harvey [Weinstein] and Miramax, and Dimension gets away scott free 'cause I know where my bread's buttered!" But he passed the script over to Harvey, and Harvey called me and was just like, "What did I ever do to you? Why are you attacking me?" He was joking around. But they're smart; they've always been very smart and very savvy, and the idea of having someone within the family lampoon them--and it's not like they get fuckin' skewered, beheaded, and drawn and quartered. The jokes are definitely jabs, but they're kind of playful jabs, so I guess they figured rather than anyone else, let's have somebody in the family say it. At least he's not taking the picture over to Lions Gate and making Miramax jokes. So they were all for it; they were pretty cool with every joke.

There was only one or two jokes in the movie, in the earlier draft of the script, that they were just like, "I don't think that works." One was when we got to the Miramax studios, at one point Jay and Bob jumped on the Miramax studio tour trams, kind of like Universal, and they tram through the place. They pass various sets of movies and production, and they go to the Hall of Precedence, where they talk about "Miramax is a precedent-setting film company." Then they had mannequins, like the Disney fuckin' mannequins, of Jaye Davidson dropping his pants in The Crying Game, and then there was Harvey Keitel with his cock out from The Piano. And Jay looked at Bob, and he's like, "These guys make movies with a lot of dicks in 'em!"

[Everyone laughs]

KS: And Harvey was just like, "I think that's funny, but I don't think anyone else would find that funny." I said, "Really?" He's going, "Yeah; it's too inside." I'm like, "'Inside'? It was outside! We already saw it in two movies! There's nothing 'inside' of it there whatsoever!" But he talked me into cutting that. But based on the reaction, I should've left it in.

Q: Was that actually the Warner Bros. lot?

KS: No, we shot on CBS, Radford, Studio City, and then we just put up the big banner of the Miramax gate. Some people were driving by like, "What happened? Did they sell out?"

Q: Now it's very interesting you're working on this project with Prince, who's also a very religious person.

KS: He is now.

Q: What's the experience been working with him?

KS: It was interesting. It was a real hit-and-run kind of project. I'm out of it now; I think my job on it is done, but I was never quite sure what my job really was. I got a call one day, and they're like, "Prince is gonna be calling you in 15 minutes." "Whoa. I'll get changed. Hold on." It's kind of like getting a call from the President; he has people call in advance and warn you that his phone call is coming. And then he called like an hour later, and I said, "Hey, I'm a huge fan," and he said, "Likewise." He said, "Did you ever think about making a musical?" And I said, "No; I can't write music." He goes, "What if you hook up with somebody who could?" I said, "Oh, like you?" And he said, "Yeah," and I said, "Yeah, I'd be down for making a musical; absolutely." But during the course of our hour conversation, hour and a half, we went from talking about making a musical to making this documentary about something that he was doing in the next few weeks.

He was gonna have this party called "The Celebration" where a bunch of fans from around the world came to Paisley Park and toured the studio and listened to his new album, which was called The Rainbow Children, and then there were concerts at night. So I got there, and he's like, "I want to make a documentary about what people feel about the album and use that as a jump-off point to talk about faith, and talk about the role of government and democracy, and talk about the radio industry and the record industry and the fate of children." And I'm like, "All before dinner?" It's an awful lot to cover. But he had a very specific idea of what he wanted to do, and I said, "OK. That's great." And he said, "I have two camera guys; we can shoot the group talk session"--he had everything covered, and I'm like, "Well, what am I doing here? I seem superfluous at this point. You have the idea; you know what you want to do; it's your documentary; you've got somebody to shoot it. I mean, I'm not even a 'shooter'; I've never made a documentary, really, outside of a little film project that I did in my four months at film school. I just don't know what I'm doing here at this point. That's not how documentaries are made. If someone has an idea, they take the idea and see it through to completion." And he's like, "Well, I don't have the time; I'm busy doing this stuff all week. I need you to do it." "All right."

So it was weird. It was the first time I've worked for somebody since Quick Stop. But at least at Quick Stop, I knew what my job was. I'd ring up the customers, stock the fuckin' milk, and make sure nobody was shoplifting. This, I just didn't know. I'm sitting there leading these focus groups after the people listen to the album--and this is a concept album, very deeply mired in faith and spirituality. It's all about God; Prince has found Jesus in a big way. And I'm leading the group discussions, and they're asking me questions I cannot possibly answer about him and why he did this. I'm trying as best I can to keep it leveled and move on to our other topics. It was very weird; for a week, I did that. And he would come in sometimes; he'd be standing at the back of the room, and I'd be, "What do you think, sir?" Everyone would turn around, and there's Prince. Then he'd come in and start talking, start preaching, start ministering, start witnessing. It was weird to watch the reaction of the fans. Some were just right there with him, and some were like, "Oh my God, he's gone fuckin' nuts!" And he liked that--he really liked that aspect. As any good priest or minister, he was aiming everything he was saying at the people that are looking at him like he's fuckin' nuts 'cause he's got the people that are with him. He wants to bring the people who don't quite get what he's doing. Look, this is the guy who wrote "Gett Off," and suddenly he's talking about Jesus. But he's always been fairly spiritual in his work, but it's always been mixed between the spiritual and the flesh, like the profane and the profound. But now it's shifted decidedly over to the divine, and I think that threw some people.

Q: Well, kind of like you, I was gonna say.

KS: Yes, but there are no dick and fart jokes on his album.

[Everyone laughs]

KS: Well, he's given up cursing altogether too, to which I was just like, "Why do you want me here?

[Everyone laughs]

KS: "I still don't know what I'm doing here." So it was weird. I was glad to help him out. I wasn't getting paid; I just did it as a favor and went up. But it was a very weird position to be in, working for somebody and not knowing if I was doing the right thing. It would be like if I handed him the cover page to Dogma, gave him a brief outline of what I wanted the movie to be, and was like, "Go write it and direct it. You know what I want." You know, you can't do that kind of thing.

Q: Where do you think you've gone now with this new movie. Have you moved forward in any way?

KS: In this movie? Oh, this is a fuckin' quantum leap backwards. This movie? Not at all. We've not matured; we've just gotten so much worse. We got right down in the mud with this picture. I think it looks better than our other movies. Technically or visually speaking, I think we've kind of taken a jump. But I didn't really have a name for this movie. The only aim I truly had, the only agenda was just to make a balls-to-the-wall comedy. After the shit we went through on Dogma, it was just kind of nice to make joke after joke after joke, and not worry about whatever controversy was gonna follow; death threats and hate mail that would come later on. Just make something that the worst piece of hate mail we would get is somebody saying, "You suck cock"--and misspelling "cock"--on the Internet.

[Everyone laughs]

Q: "...and fuck you up your stupid ass."

[Everyone laughs]

KS: "...and fuck 'em up their stupid asses." So it was kind of a nice palate cleanser. We were a year in post-production on Dogma from the time we stopped shooting to the time the movie finally came out, and we had Cannes and the New York Film Festival in between there. But we were a year in post-production, and during that year, we spent most of it not being able to open our own mail because of the death threats. So it was really nice to make something that [I] didn't worry about whatsoever. Nobody was gonna come down on us, unless it was Harvey Weinstein, but he was in on the joke, so we were OK. Ben [Affleck] and Matt [Damon], too. It's not like they'd sent the Ben 'n Matt Mafia to kick our ass because they were actually playing themselves making jokes about themselves. So there's no controversy; there's no fear of how we're gonna sell this to the world. It's like, people are gonna go, or they're not gonna go.

Q: But what about this current climate in Washington of censorship...

KS: The FTC and whatnot?

Q: Yeah, and basically you've got two dope dealers running around just talking dick jokes and trying to screw girls or whatever.

KS: Don't they do that kind of shit on Friends every week? [Everyone laughs] I'm not familiar with the show, but I hear that's what it's about.

Q: Well, they do, but not as obviously. I mean, this is just coming out in an era when... like today, this little Disney movie, crazy/beautiful, which is a decent enough Hollywood attempt at trying to do a serious teen story about a self-destructive girl--although she doesn't seem all that self-destructive because they had to get a PG-13 rating. So it kind of cuts its own throat.

KS: Right. This movie doesn't do that at all.

Q: Yeah, I know, but do you have any thoughts on your movie coming out in an atmosphere like this?

KS: Not really. Essentially we're just praying to God that we secure the R and that's that. We don't want to go through an NC-17 battle. Don't really feel the movie's NC-17. We went through an NC-17 battle on the first movie [Clerks], and there was a movie that had nothing objectionable in it except for language. This is kind of the same case, so we're hoping history doesn't repeat itself. But other than that, no. I mean, I'm not really worried about them trying to sell it to kids; they can't in the current climate. I think our audience will show up to see it, and hopefully more people beyond our audience will come, but if our audience shows up, that's just fuckin' peachy-creamy with me. So I'm not too worried about that kind of stuff. I mean, am I gonna get invited over to [Senator Joseph] Lieberman's house anytime soon? Probably not, unless he just wants to discuss cuts in the movie. But other than that, I'm certainly not sweating it.

Q: Is this the last of Jay and Silent Bob?

KS: This is it. This is the last live action. I'll still probably deal with them in the comic books if I keep that up, and Harvey wants us to do a Clerks cartoon movie. And I'm like, "Dude, don't you remember? The TV show failed. We got kicked off TV." He's like, "No, but it'll work as a movie, and we'll do it cheap, seven million bucks." "All right." And we get to, this time, not worry about language, either. So they'll be in that as well. But live action? Yeah, this is it.

Q: Do you like to act and direct?

KS: I would much prefer just to do one or the other. Well, I don't even like acting; I'd much prefer to just direct. In this movie, the nature of the beast was such that I spent more time in front of the camera almost than I did behind the camera--or almost equal time, I guess; I'd do something and then go back and watch the playback or something like that. Thankfully I don't have to memorize dialogue that much except for the one or two moments in the movie, which were hell.

[Everyone laughs]

KS: And so I spend most of the time just fuckin' reacting because I don't really act; I just have three faces: the wide-eyed, the fuckin' rolling the eyes, and one other one that's kind of nebulous. So I spend most of that time going through Look 1, 2, or 3, and listening to make sure that [Jason] Mewes is giving the performance that I'm kind of hoping he gives. But I'd much rather just do the directing thing. Now that we're done with them, I don't think I'd ever really act again. Maybe pop up for a line or something, but not be in front of the camera.

Q: Why did you ever become Silent Bob in the first place, and why ultimately make a whole movie around them?

KS: Did we move to that? When I wrote Clerks, I wrote the Jay part for Jay. I really wanted to see if people would find him funny, and it's based on who he was about 14 or 15--kind of a romanticized version of who Jay was at that time. And I wanted somebody to stand next to him just so that he could say all his shit and have somebody there as a sounding board, so he didn't look psychotic just standing outside the store talking his shit. And I'd originally written the role of Randal for myself to play. I wanted to play Randal, which is why Randal has all the best jokes in Clerks. But the closer we got to production, I was like, "I cannot memorize all this fuckin' dialogue; who wrote this shit?" and I just backed out of it. And I said, "I want to be in the movie, so if this is the only movie I make, I will at least want to see myself in it, so that when I think in the future about making another movie, and remember that I had $40,000, $50,000 and accrued credit card debt, I can pop it in and see my stupid mug in the movie and be like, 'Ah yes, let's not make a movie again. I'm still paying that bullshit off.'" So I at least wanted to be in it, and so, boom, I looked through the script, and I was like, "You know what? Silent Bob has no lines; I can absolutely fuckin' do that. I'll look good standing next to Mewes--I'm kind of the diametric opposite: he's very thin, wirey, and always chattering; I'm just big; I'm not wirey; I don't move; and I don't have to say a fuckin' word. So that's good for me." So I kept wanting to bring him back because I love Mewes--I think he's really funny--and I just kept coming back with him; you can't really split up the team. And so every movie it just kind of progressed, and with this one, it felt like, you know, you can't make a movie Jay Strikes Back; people'd be like, "Where's Silent Bob?"--because, oddly enough, Silent Bob is the favorite of the two characters, which I discovered in the test screenings for Dogma and this one. I never tell Mewes because he'd be upset. They go through the audience, and everyone rates the characters, and Silent Bob always scores the highest over Jay.

Q: Like a contemporary version of Chaplin's Tramp.

KS: I guess. I think it really has a lot to do with the fact that Jay is a very offensive character. People could find him funny, but there's a cross-section of the audience that won't, and so they tend to bring his scores down, whereas I act as the audience. Jay says something outlandish, and I'm rolling my eyes and shit, and they're like, "I identify with the fat guy. I would roll my eyes at this bullshit too." So I think that's why I score a little higher, but I also like to think it's because I'm a better actor, but I know that's not the truth.

Q: To call your cast "eclectic" is a bit of an understatement here. We were talking to Shannon [Elizabeth] a little while before; she'd said that you've really started to experiment with relating to different actors on different levels. Would you say that's true, or has your directing style changed?

KS: How did she--did she give an example? The way I interact with actors is like, "FUCKIN' DO IT!" and then walk away. And then they [go], "All right; all right," and then they do it.

Q: One thing I was curious about is, I mean, you tore Affleck a new ass on Mallrats for improvising. And Will Ferrell--it sounds like you really gave him a lot of leeway.

KS: Well, the difference between Will Ferrell and Affleck improvising is Will Ferrell is very funny.

[Everyone laughs]

KS: So I'll give a person a lot of room if they can make me laugh, and Will Ferrell always made me laugh. The sad part of it was most of the stuff that he ad-libbed--in fact, almost all of the stuff Will ad-libbed--never made it into the movie. And it was great, and it was great while sitting there watching it, and wonderful to the cast and crew, but it just doesn't play in the movie. The weird thing is you can let people ad-lib. On this movie, I loosened up the reigns, and Will and [Chris] Rock were able to ad-lib more than anyone I've ever let ad-lib before; nobody else, just those two guys. In the cutting room, you find that the ad-lib shit, as funny as it is, just slows the movie down, and you always wind up cutting it down to what was the script. You'll sit there and cut, and then you watch the scene, you're like, "Oh, that's exactly how it was in the script." So the script's usually right, and the ad-lib stuff, while being very funny, and it'll play great on a DVD, just doesn't really help the movie; it tends to slow it down. {HIGHLIGHT FOR VERY SPECIFIC SPOILERS}That being said, Rock's one genius ad-lib moment in the movie is the line where he's just like, "Does your daddy know you bring a nigga his coffee?" That's not a line I could write; I wouldn't feel comfortable writing that line. But as we were doing the scene, he threw that in, and if you pull out the mix tracks--pull out the sound effects and everything that builds up the sound mix--and just listen to the dialogue track, in the far background you'll hear me fuckin' scream. I just crack up because out of nowhere he just threw that out, and I just was like, "WAH!" And then my mouth could sort of finish the scene. But that's the one ad-lib moment I think that stayed in the movie. The other moment that's not really an ad-lib comment but more of something that I didn't write and Mewes actually did was we were rehearsing our light saber fight, and he's like, "I have double bong, two bongs?" And I said, "Yeah, you have like Darth Maul's, and you've got a double bong." And he said, "So, all right, so when I come back like this, can I turn it off and take a hit from it?" And I was like, "That's pretty genius." I'd never even thought of that, and that's the benefit of him being a fuckin' pot smoker, and me not. So I was like, "Yeah, all right, let's do it." We talked to the CG guys, and we were like, "Can we do that? Can he turn it off and take a hit without lasering his face off?" And they said, "Yeah, absolutely," and it's a huge moment in the movie. At the first test screening, the audience goes nuts, and they applaud, and I was right there applauding with them because I didn't write it. I was just like, "That is fuckin' pretty funny."{END SPOILERS}

Q: How do you approach Mark Hamill and say, "We're gonna take everything you stood for and turn it on its head?" Was he really enthusiastic about that?

KS: Very enthusiastic. We sent him the script, and I don't think Mark was real familiar with our stuff; I think at that point he'd maybe seen an episode of Clerks cartoon. I don't think he'd seen Clerks or [Chasing] Amy or Mallrats or Dogma--anything. But what he said was, "I've only been offered two things in my life that my kids ever got excited by, and one was The Simpsons episode, and this was the other one. And the kids found out I was offered this, and they're like, 'If you don't do this, we'll disown you as a father.'" So he agreed to do it and had a blast doing it. He said more than once that he'd been asked to do Star Wars-type stuff in other movies again and again, and he's always flat-out refused. He said but this one, it was funny, and he couldn't not do it. And he was just attracted to wearing the big fist too; he just thought that was really funny. He's like, "So I just have a big fuckin' fist?" I was like, "That's it." He's like, "That's really funny."

Q: Can you tell us a little bit about your relationship with Jason, how you met, when you met, and all that?

KS: Jason Mewes? Iíve known him for about 12 years. We grew up in the same town together, this little town called Highlands in New Jersey.

Q: So you haven't known him since childhood, then.

KS: No, no, no, no--since his childhood because he was about at that time 13 or 14, something like that. But he was a kid that I didnít know for many years but knew of, like heís the kind of kid of local folklore--everybody knows Mewes, like ďThereís that Mewes kid, I heard he fucked a dog.Ē Then you find out later on, he's like, ďI never fucked a dog. I just blew it a little bit.

[Everyone laughs]

KS: "Just a bit--or maybe it is; Iím not sure." [laughs] But he started hanging out with a couple friends of mine, Bryan [Johnson] and Walter [Flanagan], and weíd be hanging out later on at night or something like that, and theyíd be talking about like, "Oh, Mewes did something really funny tonight." I said, "Jason Mewes? You guys are hanging out with him too?" And they said, "Yeah." And I was kind of jealous because I was their recent friend; Iíd only been their friend for a year, and suddenly thereís a new guy. And one day we were going to a comic book show, me and Walt and Bryan, and Mewes shows up too. And theyíre like, "Heís going with us." Iím like, "Iím not transporting a fuckin' minor across state lines"--we were going to New York. And then Bryanís like, "Fine, Iíll drive." And so I sat in the backseat of Bryanís car, and Mewes sat in the front seat, and he was sitting there like, "Snoogans, noonch!" and all his little shit, and I was sitting in the back like, "He ainít so fuckin' funny"--you know, really jealous. Eventually, Bryan and Walt lost interest in him, and then he just started showing up at my house. Someone would knock on the door, and Iíd open the door, and itíd be Mewes, and he was like, "You wanna hang out?" I was like, "Iím not your friend. Go find your fuckin' friends." And he just kept it up; he just kept coming by and coming by. Then finally heíd pop by, and I was like, "Look, if you really want to hang out, tomorrow morning at the Quick Stop Iím fuckin' putting together papers, 5:30 in the morning. You can come and help me put together the papers." And heíd wake up at 5:30 in the morning, go down to Quick Stop. Weíd put together the papers and sit around, watch Silver Spoons and Degrassi Junior High and shit, and heíd go to sleep on the freezer cases in the store, hidden behind stacks of papers. And as the papers went down during the day, people coming out of church and buying their bread and papers in the morning would see this dude--just fuckin' dead asleep with drool coming out of his mouth--and fuckin' jump back a little bit; it was always good for a laugh.

But the first time that I was really just like, "You know, I do like this kid a lot, and I will hang out with him hardcore" is me and Walter were at the rec center where we worked, and thatís where they met Mewes. We were sitting there; none of the kids have come down yet--it was an afterschool program where kids come when schoolís done, and their parents pick them up at the end of the day. Weíre sitting there; no kids are there; me and Walter are reading comics; and the door just fuckin' explodes up and Mewes marches in and proceeds to fellate anything that looks somewhat phallic in the room. So if thereís a pool stick, heís sucking it off. If there's a flag pole, he was fucking sucking it off. He grabbed the phone; he's sucking off--never once looking up to us; never once going like, "Do you think this is funny?" He didnít care who was there, who was watching--he had an agenda. He was like, "Iím gonna suck off everything in the room at the rec." Just like Jay was walking around town going, "Itís 3:00--I think Iíll go suck everything off in the rec." And he got to the Asteroids machine, and he stops dead because thereís no joystick; thereís a rollerball. And he fucking shrugs, and he starts going down on the rollerball, and I was like, "Thatís genius. Heís pretty funny." So I started hanging out with him more after that.

{HIGHLIGHT FOR VERY SPECIFIC SPOILERS}
Q: Did you have to secure likeness rights for stuff like Planet of the Apes and Scooby-Doo?

KS: No, but we had to alter it just enough. Weíd run it through the lawyers because the lawyers were pretty hardcore on this movie in terms of if we were going to parody something like Scooby-Doo, we had to change everything just enough. So Scooby doesnít have the triangle or diamond tag, he has a square, but it says "dog" on it in the green and the kind of yellow shade. Their outfits are not picture perfect to the cartoon. Fred is wearing a pink shirt as opposed to a white, but he still has an ascot. Daphneís outfit doesnít have the shoes that she has, and the colorís a little different, but everything is just close enough to be reminiscent of it or to make you look at it and youíre like, "Thatís fuckin' Scooby-Doo." But itís not directly on the money so that you can operate as a parody. You can be like, "Itís not Scooby-Doo. We never call anyone 'Scooby-Doo'; nobodyís ever called 'Daphne'; nobodyís ever called 'Fred,' 'Shaggy'"--so you get away with it legally. Planet of the Apes, same thing. We couldnít do the exact same outfits that they had--like I really wanted to do those fuckin' leather striped vests that they had; we couldnít do those. We had to do slight variations on them, but you see it, and youíre like, "Thatís Planet of the Apes."{END SPOILERS}

Q: We didn't get to see the credits; will this have a tag that says "Jay and Silent Bob won't return"?

KS: No, it has a different tag on it altogether, which youíll see when--you have to pay to see that.

Q: I will.

KS: Awesome. Thank God. That's one sale down.

[Everyone laughs]

Q: Will they do more cameos, like Scream 3?

KS: No, I think this is it. I think rather than beat a dead horse or have them overstay their welcome, itís just time to leave the party before weíre the last guys there going like, "You have any records I can listen to?" Just get out while the gettingís good, and coming back is just kind of like--I don't know, a false promise, then. Itís just like that Iím really done with them if I keep going back to the well. Iíd rather just get out while the gettingís good, before they grow tired. Remember when people used to love Pauly Shore and the Weasel, and people would run around and go, "Hey, buh-dee"? And then one day everyone hated fuckin' Pauly Shore. So I donít want to be Pauly Shore--not the one that they hated. So itís time to get out before people lose interest.


Next Roundtable: Jason Lee



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